Sep 092012
Imagine if Ex-Hasidim had a shul! It would be desecration of the holy apostasy! God forbid!
But still, I wonder, maybe? Because there’s obviously a sizable enough population of ex-hasidim to fill up Rodney and sing cheeree-beeree-bum. And because a synagogue has always been important to Jews
Frieda Vizel
Frieda Vizel left the Hasidic community, the Modern Orthodox community and the Formerly Orthodox (OTD) community. She now lives in Pomona and is actively looking for a new community to leave. She deals with the perplexities of the communities she left by drawing cartoons about them, a habit that gets her into an excellent amount of trouble.20 Responses to “On Frummy Ex-Hasidim”
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If Congregation Non-Shomer-Shabbos doesn’t have to have four walls, perhaps in exists already? Online, in congregations such as this one?
So much of our heritage is magnificently rich and fulfilling, it’s a shame so many have left it all behind, and have thrown the baby out with the bath water (or worse, have thrown out the baby and kept the bath water, but that’s a whole other topic).
Immigrants have done the same in previous generations, it wasn’t until multiculturalism became popular when young people began to embrace what their grandparents shed as soon as they stepped off the boat. There’s still some work to be done before we have Shtetl pride month celebrated at college campuses, but we’re getting there. Maybe it is this generation of maskilim with their unique understanding of both worlds who will bridge the devide between the shtetl past and contemporary American Judaism. It is my hope that sooner or later a plethora of communities will form to reclaim their culture and fill the gaping void within their eternally Jewish hearts.
I would like to say, from the non-hassidish side of things, I hope that Mr. Ox is right. If you look at the great works of European Yiddish modernism, they were all created by young men and women fleeing their (mostly) hasidic upbringings and trying to find a way to synthesize their new, modern life with the best of the traditional world they grew up in. Writer and enthnographer Sh An-Sky (The Dybbuk) supposedly ran a halfway house for escapees from the Vitebsk yeshiva!
Alas, WWII destroyed this attempt to create a middle way of Jewish life between tradition and total linguistic assimilation.
another thought provoking hit.
i wonder if we can have a synagogue without the plaques of remembrance to remind us of the past and to ensure a future? Can one create a temple out of a tent? is there a way to set down roots with a mishkan instead of a mikdash me’at?
can we yell at our children to be quiet during our ruminations of our estatical ghosts?
Great post! OTD represents a negative – “OMG, can’t believe they deprived me of bacon my entire life!” or slogans like that. If anyone wants to move on but lacks the rebellious anger – and many do – the least they’d want to is to associate with fellow OTDs.
And that’s where Shragi Getzel is mistaken. There are a great many – and I’m talking intellectuals who grew up in open communities – who have moved on, but don’t even have FB accounts. They still find beauty in Judaism, and not everything HAS to get the “You’re an apologetic” response.
While seas don’t split and rivers don’t turn to blood, it’s no reason to leave it ALL behind.
it would be wonderful if… but as we were taught that this none-believing de-ligion does not have a “zechis kiyem” the roots and cause us not strong enough for it to go on…
done would say this is true to even the modern orthodox and others add they could go on in titer way add long add there is the extreme orthodox to compare itself not to be…
It would be nice. With whatever level of belief and/or traditions we’re all individually comfortable with. And to Itim Chalimeh, why does it have to last? It is what it is. It would feel good now to have a non-pressured environment with comforting familiar things we all grew up with. Thats part of us too. Why do we have to stifle parts of ourselves to fit into the world?
yeshuvahfru u r right. this concept of everlasting / future-oriented / etc.. is embedded in me and many of us by default…
One reason there’s not so much need for a Haskalah today is that we have the liberal streams of Judaism (and also modern Orthodoxy, sort of), which do some of what the Haskalah once did (trying to preserve Jewish civilization while adjusting it to modernity).
As others have noted, I’m not sure there’s that much to do in terms of reviving the Haskala per se – traditional Judaism has been deconstructed already, notwithstanding the efforts of those who choose to indentify with it. It seems to me that there is one worthy project left for those who still feel lured by tradition yet transcend its inevitable limitations, and it is the hardest one of all – the comprehensive reform (or perhaps abolition) of the rough edges which cut so sharply into the life of our inestimable ba’alas habayis and her fellow travellers. It is this aspect of the haskala that can be brought back to life and it is here where its work lies unfinished. And only those who are united in a profound attachment to their heritage, as opposed to merely being affiliated in animosity have the tools to really embark on this avodas hakodesh.
ס’שטעלט זיך א מנין מעריב אינדרויסן. דא דיסקוסירט מען קוגעל רעצעפטן. לאקשן קוגל איז אויף די אגענדע. אסור לדבר!
There is no comparison from today’s OTD to Mendelssohn and the Haskalah/Reform movement.They were all highly intelligent and well learned in the talmud,tenach etc.While today’s OTD are mostly uneducated problematic kids.Most of them have schavcha kap to learn and didn’t pick up much in school/chedar/yeshiva
Moe,
What study is your statement based on? And where is that study published?
Moe is right. Of course there are exceptions. But for the most part that is the case. Oh, sure, there are many smart ones who leave the fold, but the OTD clan stands for nothing other than rebellious anger and hate (perhaps rightfully so) which any intelligent human wouldn’t wanna associate with.
Shragi Getzel, it’s his opinion, and mine, and asking for where the study was published is, well, unintelligent.
Here’s some food for thought: seeing the OTD community, many chose to stay in the fold.
It’s your opinion too Leo?
It’s my opinion that in the heyday of the Haskalah/Reform movement most people left for the same reasons people are leaving today. Your picking Mendelsohn and comparing him to the kids who who didn’t do well in yeshiva is unintelligent.
What would you say to the charge that today’s frum people cannot be compared to R’ Chaim Brisker or the Chozeh M’Lublin, today’s frum people are only in it because they like cholent and kugel? Is that an intelligent argument? Does it prove anything?
Mendelssohn never left.
In the old days people were chaleshing for intellectual stimulation, so they turned to Moreh Nevuchim and devoted their greatest intellectual efforts to our own literature. Today if you are chaleshing for intellectual stimulation you can, you know, go check out some books from a library, or order from Amazon. Or matriculate to college.
Unfortunately for us OTD’ers, we are indeed trained from a young age to think in black and white terms i.e. either/or thinking and not and/also. As others have pointed out this isn’t the only way that we are talking to each other (and to ourselves for that matter) on chareidi terms. The very name OTD with all it’s negative connotations should be the first thing to change.
Closeted OTD’ers, having never been acknowledged to exist by the Chareidi establishment, indeed have no name or label within the community. Some call them Kofrim Apikorsim etc., but when people see them being observant all these names lose significance. By and large people see them as equal Apikorsim as the guy who claims the current Rebbe can’t do a moiyfes. The real names they have, such as Orthoprax (or Marranos?), are names the OP community has chosen for themselves.
Shpitzele, in the spirit of your caption contest, how about a “naming contest” for this community that you’re suggesting?
Shragi Getzel,
Its not a study but a fact.Of course there is some exception notice how i used the term most OTD.
Its a fact that most OTD who leave didn’t make it with the studies and were problematic in general.
The Haskalah some of them learned in Volozhin,brisk and were great learners.
R’ Moe dear,
You just repeated yourself in different words so I’ll repeat myself in different words to you.
You postulated that whereas most maskilim of old were highly intellectual non-problematic members of society, most of today’s OTDers are not intellectuals but rather they are problematic.
You say that today there are exceptions to this rule, and I ask you; where did you get this rule from? You cite Mendelsohn and some unnamed maskilim who learned in Brisk. How many maskilim can you name who were intellectuals? 5, 10, 20? The rest left for the same reasons people are leaving today.
Mendelsohn and your Briskers were exceptions in their day too.
Moe, what is the point of your observation? I mean, what are you trying to get at?